As you might surmise, this greatly complicates the process of aiming. The first is that, practically speaking, an open-sighted lever gun chambered for a traditional lever-gun cartridge such as the .444 Marlin has a practical, open-sighted maximum hunting range of about 300 yards. Mag. OP wants a rifle though, and 45-70 vs 44 magnum is not a straight up 45 vs 44 contest unless we step into 45-70 vs 444 Marlin. Holding at the bottom of the 16-inch plate, I was able to get three hits in a row. Heres a look at two classic straight-wall cartridges for deer hunting. The .444 creates a "sharper" recoil than the .45-70, the .450 Marlin is just like a heavy loaded .45-70 and the 1886 in .45-70 is a pussycat rifle to shoot no kidding. Width: 0.514". Still, I wont be putting a scope on this rifle. In addition, I think that given good lighting conditions, I could make a solid hit on a deer or similarly sized critter out to about 200 yards. I didnt see the point of attempting 400 yards. Initially loaded with a .458-caliber, 405-grain And yes, this was shooting from the seated position with sticks. Agreeing this was a good idea, he altered one and sent it to me. .280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. Although most people will likely put it up as a collector, if youre going to get serious about shooting with it at distance, Id suggest you order the modified version of the Skinner sight and possibly a replacement front sightone that has a slightly smaller bead so you can see the target youre shooting atfor when youre shooting a long way out there. (In the interest of full disclosure, out of a subsequent string of 10 shots, I missed the plate three times.). Today the .444 has a small but staunch I didnt see the point of attempting 400 yards. By Chuck Hawks. And, well, thats always a good thing. But the .45-70 is a classic military cartridge with class. But I can, for damned sure, kill a white, 16-inch steel plate at that distance. It has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps. .404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby Mag. .300 Win. Good for real big stuff and most African game. No ports are on the 1886 but you have nearly a 9 pound rifle of real steel and wood there. At 10 mph, a 90-degree crosswind will push the referenced .444 Marlin bullet more than 2 feet at 300 yards. I think the rifle is capable of putting all the shots at 300 yards on a 16-inch, and even an 8-inch, plate, but my eyes and I werent. I have used both and the 45/70 is the only way to go in my opinion. The .444 Marlin is essentially a deer rifle that can be used on black bear. .308 Winchester vs. 7mm-08 Remington The .444 did have its moment in the sun, and there are still quite a few shooters who quietly enjoy their lever guns each season. .338 Winchester vs. .375 H&H Magnum However, while you might sometimes get some hits at stupid-long distances, it doesnt present an ethical answer for hunting past 300 yards. Match Grade Machine did extensive testing with different barrel lengths in some of our most popular cartridges. I considered that respectable for open sights at 200 yards, but I was a bit disappointed in the settings/configuration of the tangent sight. among our first successful self-contained metallic Like the .44-40 WCF and .45 Colt, the .45-70 Government has been with us since 1873, and shows no sign of fading anytime soon; its roots in the American shooting industry run deep, and Id bet the affection for the design will extend another century. 444 uses a 44 magnum handgun bullet (.429) and the 45.70 uses a 45 caliber (.458) rifle bullet. If you range a deer at 375but its actually 350 (because you ranged the rock behind the deer)when you input the elevation correction for 375 yards, your bullet will actually strike about a foot higher than your point of aim. 857 Mauser vs. .318 Westley Richards .338 Win. Both are suitable for nearly any big-game animal, save the African dangerous heavyweights, and both have fervent, passionate followers. Though the .45-70 Government cartridge has been in production since 1873, there was a time when a new rifle chambered in that cartridge just wasnt offered. But, these rifles are not traditional lever guns. To see a 10-inch variation in trajectory over a distance of 25 yards with a .308 Winchester, youd have to be shooting at about 500 yards. You'll have considerably heavier built and weight bullets available with the 45/70. .257 Roberts vs. .250-3000 Savage Hand loads with better bullets will fix this. But in my opinion, the sheer flexibility of the .45-70 Government in both rifles and ammunition gives it a definitive advantage. The 35 Rem may have better penetration than the 444 because of tougher bullets. Out of the Anniversary Marlin, the Hornady load averaged 2,313 fps. .30-06 Springfield vs. .270 Winchester .30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington Weve got you covered. After establishing a holdover point, at 200 yards, I rang the 16-inch steel 10 out of 10 times, and the best string of three shots grouped into a nice, little, 3-inch cluster. Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellent LeveRevolution line, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain Recoil: 2.54. ; this is a formidable load in any rifle. 45-70 does have the advantage of originally being a black powder cartridge, which means you can load it very light or even use black powder loads for less recoil and still have that big fat slug going downrange. The Marlin M1895 in .45-70, released in 1972 has without a doubt been a major success. .300 Win. You only need those in Africa. What I wanted to know is how effective this rifle could be at distance. The bullet impacted about 4 inches above the plate. Out of a 24 barrel with a 160 yard zero, and a 265 grain projectile 444 Marlin has a muzzle velocity of 2,325 feet per second with 3,181 pound feet of energy. The .450 Marlin is definitely more powerful than most (and probably all) commercially loaded .45-70 ammunition.If you don't reload and you want to hunt bear, I'd probably go with the .450 Marlin. .22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift Ballistics and Drop for the .444 Marlin. Average Gr: 275. I carry a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 for protection from bears when needed. Its a gorgeous, well-made rifle that also comes with something else that would lead you to believe it is, indeed, a beautiful, well-made long-range rifle. Factory 45-70 ammo is typically made very weak too so you don't even have to reload to get this "advantage". Its damned hard to hit stuff you cant see. The.45-70 Governmentis definitely the older of the two, having been released in 1873 in the famous Trapdoor Springfield. TheBuffalo Bore.45-70 Magnum load will see the 405-grain jacketed bullet driven to a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps for a muzzle energy of just about 3,600 ft.-lbs. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Even though the .444 Marlin cartridge is similar in size to the .45-70, the .444 works in the smaller, svelter Model 336 action. The Winchester 1886 is back in several iterations, the Henry lineup includes the .45-70 and even Marlin saw fit to offer its Model 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70. The sight is made for Marlin by Skinner Sights, so I reached out to Andy Larsson at Skinner to discuss this. .500 Jeffrey vs. .505 Gibbs If I need to shoot farther, I have several optically sighted .308s. .458 Win. At 300 yards, it took several shots to figure out my reference point on the reticle. The 444 Marlin drops only slightly less than the 450 Bushmaster and is therefore flatter shooting. The problem was that the sliding sight blade wasnt regulated for 200 yards. It has been used for everything from deer to Cape Buffalo, and remains popular among the bear guides to this day. This is ballistic factat least giving or taking an inch or so, depending on the ballistic calculator you use to do your guessing. Thank you for your support. Again, with the .308 Winchester, youll have to be shooting at about 500 yards to experience the same drift. That wasnt always the case. That said, the .45-70 is plenty powerful enough for black bear. Well I hope not I happen to like the 405 just the way it is and would hate to see it replaced by anything. Now, its true that lever guns such as the Savage 99, Browning BLR and, most recently, the Henry Long Ranger, have been chambered for modern, flat-shooting cartridges such as the .308 Winchester and even 6.5 Creedmoor. .35 Whelen vs. 9.3x62mm Mauser There were several important takeaways from this experiment. .450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express .308 Winchester vs. .30-06 Springfield Ballistically, thats about the limit of this cartridge anyway. Learn how your comment data is processed. .223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. .270 Winchester vs. .270 WSM .416 Rigby vs. .416 Remington Magnum .300 PRC vs. .300 Win. .30-06 Springfield vs. All Other .30s var wWidgetConf_72c367966e = {rows: 4,cols: 1,backgroundColor: 'rgb(240, 240, 240)',textColor: 'rgb(0, 0, 0)',borderColor: '#DDD',displayContent: '0',contentSort: '0',contentType: '0',showTitle: '1',showThumb: '1',widgetID: 'wWidget_72c367966e',layout: 'basic'}; !function(r,u,m,b,l,e){r._Rumble=b,r[b]||(r[b]=function(){(r[b]._=r[b]._||[]).push(arguments);if(r[b]._.length==1){l=u.createElement(m),e=u.getElementsByTagName(m)[0],l.async=1,l.src="https://rumble.com/embedJS/uhw409"+(arguments[1].video?'. .243 Winchester vs. 6mm Remington But in 1972 Marlin reintroduced the model 1895 chambered in .45-70, after which the .444 gradually fell out of favor. Lets look at the similarities, differences and applications of each. Its also true that in 1982, Winchester introduced the .307 Winchester in the Model 94; and, in 2007, Marlin unleashed the .308 Marlin Express. Im not sure I could hit a deer at 200 yards in a natural setting every time, because theyre much harder to see than a white steel plate. The second takeaway is that the 150th Anniversary Marlin rifle shoots every bit as good as it looks. Fortunately, there was some space below the lowest setting that allowed me to see through the slot. Average Energy: 3001. Of course, it wasnt long until we had cartridges such as the .30-06 in bolt-action rifles, and long range suddenly become a lot farther than it had ever been. This allowed me to see the target, but the distance was pushing the limits of my prescription shooting glasses. Both offered very improved ballistics over traditional lever-gun cartridges. The .45-70 uses a straight-walled, rimmed case measuring 2.105 inches, and maintains an overall length of 2.550 inches. I attached it, zeroed it and, from a bench rest at 100 yards, fired a three-shot group that measured 1.27 inches, center to center. Looking at this product line, youll be inclined to give the nod to the .444 Marlin, especially coupled with the HornadySuperformanceload of the 265-grain InterLock at 2400 fps. He serves as contributing editor for several magazines, including NRAs American Rieman and Shooting Illustrated, Varmint Hunter, and Combat Handgunner, and is the editor for Gun Digests Cartridges of the World 13th Edition. vs. .340 Wby. After I figured it out, I hit the steel seven out of 10 times. But the OP sets the parameters, and the most important one: he Case in point, Hornady s FTX LeverEvolution line. Has abundant recoil, though. When the .30-30 Winchester cartridge was introduced in the 1894 Winchester, it provided much more reach than most lever guns of that age. The .45-70 Government has quite the bullet range in comparison to the .444 Marlin; bullets will run from 250-grains all the way up to the behemoth 600-grain slugs, with a slew of choices in between. Target sights could extend this distance, at least in non-hunting situations. The .444 Marlin is a proprietory cartridge. There is not much difference in the trajectory between the 35 Rem. In this day and age with powder and bullets being so much money the 444 and the 450 offers the best efficiency, and the 444 would be the cheapest of the three to load for, heres what I like to say about the 444, vs the others: The 444 will do the same thing in the field, VS the 450/45-70 with: Less bullet Diameter. The .450 Marlin has ballistics almost identical to magnum .45-70 Government ammunition and the cartridge fires the same weight bullet approximately 600fps faster than lower pressure .45-70 ammo intended for use in the Trapdoor Springfield. vs. .300 WSM Please try again. Lets look at what I was actually capable of doing with this new Marlin at distance. 6.5 Creedmoor vs. 7mm-08 Remington Born in 1873, .45-70 Govt. The U.S. Army adopted the new cartridge, which replaced the .50-70 cartridge it employed in 1866. (Sure, I could have clicked-in the correction, but I was trying to avoid that. Just challenging to obtain data on the .405 ballistics and near term 1895 .405 rifle reviews/results. This rifle was given the name of their original .45-70 lever gun which was discontinued in 1915, the Model 1895. Test-Fire: Marlin Model 444 18-1/2 .444 Marlin Comparatively, out of a 24 barrel with a 142 yard zero and a 325 grain bullet, the 45-70 GOVT has a muzzle velocity of 2,050 with 3,033 Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellentLeveRevolutionline, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain FTX at 2025 fps. Did You Know That Your Government is Arming Agencies Like the IRS, DHS, VHA, OIG, SSA, NPS. The case can also be handloaded to impressive figures in a suitable rifle, and there are some excellent bullets like theSwift A-Framewhich will further enhance the performance of this old design, yet the classic cast-lead bullets at low velocities are still fun to shoot. But, thats enough ballistic speculation for one article. Mag. Fortunately, Marlin continued to produce .444 rifles, adopting a 22 barrel with 1:20 twist Ballard rifling in 1999. 7x57mm Mauser vs. .280 Remington That begs the question of what a traditional long-range lever gun might be likeas well as if you had one, what you might be able to do with it. With nothing more than a 150th Annivesery Marlin Model 336 and steady nerves, you can make hits a country mile with the behemoth .444 Marlin. vs. .458 Lott The load used is a 265-grain FP Superformance with an advertised velocity of 2,400 fps. 6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington As the official military long-arm cartridge from 1873 to 1893when the .30-40 Krag kindled the American love affair with .30-caliber cartridgesthe .45-70 Government was used in both shoulder-fired rifles and the Gatling guns, but like so many military cartridges, it also quickly gained a following among sportsman. of muzzle energy, and that combo will handle any North American game animal. And forget the 458 Winchester and all the rest of the heavies. It has a 24-inch, half-octagonal barrel, checkered, C-grade, American black walnut wood, some tasteful engraving and a gold inlay. There has been an error with your Email Subscription. Yep, its old-fashioned, but with modern ammunition the .45/70 is far from antiquated. The fluid motion of the action and those huge, rimmed, brass cases make for some formidable medicine for the largest bears, bison and cervids. Ultimately, no one seemed to give a damn: Both cartridges died on the vine. The .450 Marlin is like a 45-70 loaded to red line - into the lower end of the .458 Winchester power level. This is how we help to make money so we can continue to bring you amazing content. At 100 yards bullet velocity slows to 1,971, with 2,286 pounds of energy. Get the .45-70. Out of a string of 10 shots, I managed four hits. The decision may now be influenced by availability of both rifles and ammunition, with the breakup of the parent company which owned Marlin (thankfully Marlin has been purchased byRuger). While I think the .444 Marlin is a sound design, there is such a diversity in the .45-70 Government makes it a logical and abundant choice for the hunter. Dealing With Reloading Component Variations, Ammo Brief: The Adaptable And Inexpensive .32 Smith & Wesson, Gun Review: Magnum Research BFR .444 Marlin, Modern Shooter: Going The Distance With H&H Precision Rifles, Video: Illuminating Low-Light Shooting Particulars. The most prominent is poor eyesight. Marlin introduced a .45-70 lever gun based on this very same rifle in 1972. For most of the past century, the lever gun was considered a short-range weapon. Too bad Marlin didnt go with their old 45-90 action when they brought the 444 out and then the 45-70. That just seemed like a sacrilegious thing to do with a lever gun!) The .444 Marlin has never become a best seller, but it has never faded away, either. '+arguments[1].video:'')+"/?url="+encodeURIComponent(location.href)+"&args="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify([].slice.apply(arguments))),e.parentNode.insertBefore(l,e)}})}(window, document, "script", "Rumble"); Rumble("play", {"video":"vdqpf1","div":"rumble_vdqpf1"}); (function(w,d,s,i){w.ldAdInit=w.ldAdInit||[];w.ldAdInit.push({slot:11366059450282598,size:[0, 0],id:"ld-3996-7102"});if(!d.getElementById(i)){var j=d.createElement(s),p=d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];j.async=true;j.src="//cdn2.lockerdomecdn.com/_js/ajs.js";j.id=i;p.parentNode.insertBefore(j,p);}})(window,document,"script","ld-ajs"); Copyright GunsInTheNews.com, All Rights Reserved. A 10 mph, 90-degree crosswind, the bullet will drift about 2 inches at 100 yards and 4 feet at 400. Lets say youre capable of hitting targets out to 400 yards with a scoped, traditionally styled lever gun because you know your data (or DOPE, as the long-range gurus like to call it). vs. .300 Win. If it achieves that, zeroed at 100 yards, the bullet will drop about 8 inches at 200 yards, 30 inches at 300 and 6 feet at 400. The Marlins, Winchester, Brownings and Henrys all handle those big-bore cartridges well, and among them the .444 Marlin and .45-70 Government are a pair of undeniable classics. While its 3 inches more at 300 yards, most people wont be taking dinner at that range with either of these. At 200 yards, things got a bit complicated, because when I flipped up the tangent sight and slid the sight blade to the very bottom, I found that the bullets were passing about 2 feet over the 200-yard target. .300 RSAUM vs. .300 WSM There is no taper toward the bullet, shoulder, neck, I have a discontinued super-compact Weaver 6X28mm riflescope that fits wonderfully on lever guns. 444 Marlin VS 45-70 Ballistics. Mag. Reality being what it is, advertised ballistics are rarely achieved. There is something almost magical about big-bore lever guns; to me they representbig-game huntingat close quarters. 7mm vs. .30 Caliber Big Bore Cartridges Compared 460 S&W vs 444 Marlin vs 450 BM vs 45-70 Govt Match Grade Machine did extensive testing with different barrel lengths in some of our most popular cartridges. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. .45-70 Government. 7mm Rem. Cartridge Type: Height: 2.225". .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum Aiming A Defensive Handgun, Is There One Right Way? For more information on the 150th Anniversery Marlin Model 336, please visit marlinfirearms.com. .243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor I suggested he cut a notch in the bottom of the channel to use at 200 yards. vs. .300 Wby. Nevertheless, the full potential of this combination has only been possible through hand loading. If youre comparing 45-70 VS 450 Bushmaster, you may want to decide if you prefer a traditional or modern gun. VIDEO: Shooting Straight with Stephen Hunter, As Feds Frantically Push Gun Control, 9th Circuit Overturns Ban On 3D-Printed Guns, Anti-Gun Lobbying Group Expects & Demands Action for Helping Elect Dems, .450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express, .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum, .25-06 Remington vs. .257 Weatherby Magnum. A former police ofcer and serviceman with the U.S. Army, Richard A. Mann is one of the most well-respected rearms authorities writing on the subject today. To fill the void, Marlin Firearms teamed up with Remington to develop a cartridge which would see the light of day in 1964: the .444 Marlin. It uses .429 bullets (same as the .44 Mag). In essence the rimmed .444 Marlin is an elongated .44 Magnum (the case length is 2.225 inches, with an overall length of 2.550 inches), as it uses the same .429-inch diameter bullets as the classic revolver cartridge, albeit at a much higher velocity. More practically, I was able to hit an 8-inch steel plate every time at that distance. And I think you can get a Marlin lever action in that caliber. 350 Legend vs. .35 Remington Again, firing from the seated position with shooting sticks, I shot a similarly sized good group on the 16-inch plate. I placed the front bead in the center of this U and tried again. For 2020, Marlin introduced its 150th Anniversary rifle, which is built on the 336 action and is chambered for the .444 Marlin. Ashley was fond of saying, A man will go to hell if he puts a scope on a lever gun.. However, what I did do was switch to a riflescope. The factory 240,s in the 444 are soft and don't penetrate very well in my experiance. This is the curse of projectiles with poor aerodynamics: A slight mistake in range estimation equates to a miss. But a proven cartridge just as the .444. WV: GOVERNOR SIGNS GOA-BACKED 2A SANCTUARY BILL INTO LAW! Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellent LeveRevolution line, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain Additionally, in a 10 mph, 90-degree crosswind, the bullet will drift about 2 inches at 100 yards, 10 at 200 yards, 2 feet at 300 and 4 feet at 400. .17 HMR vs. .17 WSM What the .45-70 does with 400-grain bullets, the .444 Marlin accomplishes with 300 grain bullets- the result being less recoil and a flatter trajectory..444 Marlin Reloading and Ballistics Data. The final problem is wind. .26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum Speaking of traditional lever guns, I must quote Ashley Emerson, one of the founders of XS Sights. The standard load will push a 240-grain .429-inch diameter bullet to 2400 fps for just over 3,000 ft.-lbs. Head to Head: .444 Marlin vs. .45-70 Government, Sons Of Liberty Radio LIVE with Tim Brown Weekdays 6-7am EST, Pants On Fire: Bidens Bogus Gun Control Claim Up in Smoke, Arizona: House Passes Frivolous Lawsuit Prevention. Which of these big cartridges makes the better choice for the prospective lever gun buyer? Now, I dont fully agree with that opinion; I can think of several reasons to put a scope on a lever gun. This limited-edition Marlin is fitted with a tangent sight from Skinner Sights. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. 7mm-08 Remington vs. .280 Remington This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. 7mm RUM vs. .300 RUM My late Godfather Oren Mick DeCheck, my maternal great-uncleenjoyed a .444 Marlin as his deer/bear rifle, and my DadOl Grumpy Pantsstill reaches for his Browning 1886 centennial .45-70 Government, so both of these cartridges played a role in my shooting world. Mag. The fluid motion of the action and those huge, rimmed, brass cases make for some formidable medicine for the largest bears, bison and cervids. This is partly because its past the limits of my vision; partly because I didnt have a steel plate any larger than 16 inches; but mostly because I could barely hit the damned thing at 300 yards. Fortunately, with the slider sight blade at the lowest setting, a 6 oclock hold was needed to hit the steel. This could push the slow-moving bullet off course enough to cause at best, a miss and, at worst, a bad hit on an animal. Another is, of course, a scout scope, which doesnt detract as much from the handling qualities of a good lever-action rifle. .25-06 Remington vs. .257 Weatherby Magnum When I tried to put that 1/10-inch front bead on it, the plate disappeared. He said Marlin didnt provide him with a rifle to build the sight to, so the company had to guess. 450 Marlin vs 45-70. The .45-70 Government has quite the bullet range in comparison to the .444 Marlin; bullets will run from 250-grains all the way up to the behemoth 600-grain slugs, with a slew of choices in between. 444 Marlin VS .450 Bushmaster Recoil. and the 444 Marlin. Less bullet weight. Looking at the variety of ammunition available for the two, the .45-70 Government has the undeniable advantage in the number of choices, with nearly every manufacturer including the cartridge in their lineup, in some form or another. The 265-grain .444 Marlin load has a muzzle velocity that is almost 300 fps faster than the 325-grain .45-70 load, it generates more energy out to 300 yards and, when sighted in three inches high at 100 yards, drops three inches less at 200 yards than the .45-70. This is partly because its past the limits of my vision; partly because I didnt have a steel plate any larger than 16 inches; but mostly because I could barely hit the damned thing at 300 yards. .270 Winchester vs. .280 Remington Editor's Note: This article originally appeared in the August 2020 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. The .45-70 Government has quite the bullet range in comparison to the .444 Marlin; bullets will run from 250-grains all the way up to the behemoth 600-grain slugs, with a slew of choices in between. .224 Valkyrie Upper Options That Go The Distance (2021), 6 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2021), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2021), 8 Budget AR-15 Options: More Bang For The Buck (2020), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2020). This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The other consideration has more to do with practicality than aesthetics; it has to do with range. Recoil is subjective and really hard to calculate because there is a lot that goes into it. While some have described the .444 Marlin as "a modern .45-70", the historical record shows that the basic concept behind the case design actually predates Thats 70 fps fewer than advertised and equates to an increase in drop of 3 inches at 300 yards. If you know this to be fact because youve confirmed it on the range, and if you have one of the twisty turret scopes to dial in an elevation and windage correction, you should be able to get hits from 100 yards all the way out to 400 yards.
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